Minutes of the meeting of Maresfield Parish Council held on

Tuesday 17 February 2004 in the Conference Room, Nutley War Memorial Hall

Present: Cllr W King (Chairman), Cllr P Tester, Cllr H Fry, Cllr J Gutteridge, Cllr G Hardy,

Cllr S Leaney, Cllr K Ogden, Cllr T Sparrow, Cllr C Stephens, Cllr R Street, Cllr R Tester,

Cllr Miss M Thomas.  County Cllr A Reid.  District Cllr F Brown, District Cllr N Buck.

Mr B Morley and Mr R Warren in connection with TEWP.  Ms Susan King of Sussex Express.  Sue Wilson to take notes.

Public questions:  There were two members of the public present, Mr & Mrs E Maynard. Mr Maynard said they had no questions or comments, but merely wished to listen to the discussions about planning and housing matters.

Cllr King explained that the Clerk was unwell and that Sue Wilson would be taking the notes.

The Chairman then congratulated Councillors on the large turnout for the tour of possible housing sites in Maresfield, despite work and other pressures on their time.

1.            Apologies for absence were received from District Cllrs J Hollins, Mrs P Kennedy, Mrs S Martin and Cllrs Mrs S Weekes and R Woodgate.

2.            Declarations of interest.  There were none.

3.            Minutes

3.1            Minutes of last meeting for approval.  Cllr Fry referred to the top of page 6 which states "Cllr Fry confirmed ... cleared".  Cllr Fry said he would be surprised if he had said that.  Cllr Sparrow clarified which footpath was being referred to and it was agreed to delete the word "from" and the words "to the A22" and insert "alongside the A22 to the start of" before the words "Crowborough Road".  The minutes were agreed subject to the amendment.

3.2            Matters arising from those minutes

Cllr P Tester said he had received a full reply to his question of CCllr Reid in item 3.1.  This will be passed to the Clerk for attention.

4.            Reports by and questions to:-

4.1            County councillor

CCllr Reid had attended a meeting earlier in the day at which the budget for the coming year had been approved.  East Sussex County Council (ESCC) would be seeking a 5.2% increase on council tax.  Some authorities were looking for increases of 15 to 25%.  The fire authority was now a separate item within the overall council tax.  In connection with the possible closure of Bentley, there will be a discussion on 9 March.  Although many people will be disappointed, this is not a core service. Highway maintenance will receive a 10% increase plus grants which will be a substantial increase.  In fact, the overall budget is flat, on last year, resulting in an overall cut when inflation is taken into account.  Other ESCC services are also taking big cuts.

Moving on to environmental matters, CCllr Reid said it was important to take advantage of woodlands.  The County of East Sussex is the most wooded in Britain after Surrey.  Future policy will be to encourage heating plants to use wood.  Beacon College is to replace two boilers with wood fired ones which ESCC is supporting as a trial.

CCllr Reid had attended a working session in Hove with DCllr Buck and staff from West Sussex County Council (WSCC) to discuss the hypothetical siting of housing up to 2025.  They had been challenged to look for space for a further 44,000 houses along the East

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Sussex, West Sussex, Brighton and Hove coastal strip.  Difficulties had been encountered due to land use designations such as Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (AONB) and the South Downs 'National Park'.  New settlements will need to be developed in East Sussex.  In response to a question from Cllr Miss Thomas, CCllr Reid said SEERA and GOSE were now looking well beyond 2015 for housing needs.

DCllr Brown asked whether more cash could be allocated to the pavement by the Nutley Post Office.  CCllr Reid said that more money was being channelled into improvement of footways as many need work.  He suggested the Parish Council should note areas for attention. 

Cllr Fry said he understood there was a plan to start resurfacing work on the Uckfield bypass on 23 February.   He had tried to ring Bob Wilkins of ESCC to ask for postponement until the Parish and County Councils have agreed definitive proposals to alter the layout which at present is highly dangerous.   Cllr R Tester said that the area to be resurfaced was Blackdown Roundabout towards Uckfield which is not in Maresfield Parish.

Cllr Sparrow said that CCllr Reid's department had helped East Sussex to get £500,000 through a Rural Bus Challenge grant for community bus services in East Sussex.

4.2            District Councillors

DCllr Buck said that a council tax increase of less than 6% had been recommended by Cabinet to Council.  The Coastal Town Meeting referred to by CCllr Reid had been demanded by SEERA and dealt only with housing in the coastal towns.  It did not include inland towns such as Hailsham.  A horrifying picture had been painted with the government considering building into the South Downs with disregard for the AONB.  DCllr Buck's view was that Councillors must fight against encroachment. 

DCllr Brown reported that Wealden District Council (WDC) is in consultation about car parking charges.  The government assumed that WDC were charging and earning money from car parking.  In fact, car park maintenance was costing WDC money. 

In connection with the review of county boundaries, recommendations had been put to full council.   Comments will be made to the Boundary Commission.

Cllr Ogden asked DCllr Buck when the next meeting of the seven planning officers would be held at WDC.  DCllr Buck thought it would be Thursday 26th February.  He added that there would be a site meeting on Monday by WDC officers in Maresfield and Buxted to consider possible sites for housing.

Cllr Fry queried two aspects of WDC practice.  He had been advised that site visits are private, but he knew that members of the public attended.  He had spoken to the legal officer who said they are private, but not handled as such because neighbours take part.  Cllr Fry felt there was a lack of clarity. 

Cllr Fry asked about the criterion/criteria used by the head of the planning department to reject or accept an application.  It appeared that decisions were made on the basis of whether an application would be rejected by the Appeal Committee.  Cllr Fry believed that it was the duty of a planning officer to decide on the basis of his own views, rather than his perception of what someone else's views might be.  Cllr Fry had spoken to the Chief Legal Officer and understood there were some arguments in favour of this basis, but he felt that at least a review was necessary.

DCllr Buck said that all criteria were considered.  If they were not met and it was obvious the application would be refused on appeal, then WDC officers would refuse it.

DCllr Brown agreed saying that, if on appeal it could be lost, it would be irresponsible of officers to recommend it for approval, as appeals cost taxpayers money.  Officers usually had a good idea if an Inspector would approve an application or not.  He reminded Councillors that decisions were made by the Planning Committee, not individual officers.

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5.            Committee & Working Party minutes and reports: Reports by and questions to Chairmen:-

5.1            Planning

Cllr Ogden referred to the Minutes of Monday 19 January 2004 which had been accepted by the Planning Committee.  Councillors had no comments or questions.

Regarding the Minutes of Monday 2 February 2004, Cllr Miss Thomas said that on page 3, in the paragraph referring to Application No. WD/04/0015, reference is made to a Certificate of Local Development.  This should refer to a Certificate of Lawful Development.

Cllr R Tester referred to item 7, the dumping of dirt at Ashdown Business Park.  Cllr Tester pointed out that under the Planning Act 1990 WDC are required to submit a Planning Application for this action.

Cllr Ogden referred to the WDC plan of possible sites for new housing.  The Parish Council had suggested a number of alternative sites, as had other people, but Mr Oldham of WDC said that they intended to build as their original plan, apart from a slight reduction in numbers.  Rydon Homes  had looked at several sites, approached residents and a plan had been presented at the Planning meeting on 16 February 2004.  After numerous telephone calls from parishioners, Cllr Ogden and Cllr Leaney had redrawn the plan with additional areas of green in the village.  An area has been allowed for retirement houses for elderly people wishing to downsize.  The possibility of an amenity centre near the Bowling Club was also considered.

The Chairman asked Councillors to first decide whether they wanted to support the plans and also the consequences of putting them to District Councillors.  Councillors discussed how many houses were required, how this would compare with the present number in Maresfield and also the acceptable densities relative to the existing.

The Chairman reminded Councillors that the Parish Council response to the Wealden Local Plan had questioned how 80 houses had been allocated to Maresfield when there are only 400 more to be built in the whole of Wealden’s villages.

Cllr P Tester asked whether the areas went right up to the development boundary without entrapping green land which will be used for development soon after.  It was suggested that some green land could be transferred to the Parish Council who would ensure it remained as green land.

DCllr Buck warned that WDC didn't know if it could proceed with the Local Plan.  If government forced them to go ahead with the Local Development Framework there was a risk of 10,000 rather than 3,500 houses in the area.

The Chairman said it appeared to him there was a risk if Councillors suggested a wide area of developable ground.  It seemed best to go for the minimum of developable ground and push for green space.

It was agreed to settle on a green area which covers the section by the church, the Recreation Ground, the secondary football pitch and alongside Hunters Moon before development into Furnace Bank.  It was also agreed to offer the minimum amount of land for building with caveats on density.  Cllr Miss Thomas said it would be very difficult to control density because of pressures from government.  WDC officers and District Councillors would probably be unable to give guarantees so it would be preferable not to include the Furnace Bank area as it is only suitable for low density housing.

DCllr Buck and Mr & Mrs Maynard left the mtg.

5.2            Finance & General Purposes

Councillors did not have any questions or comments to raise on the Minutes.

5.3            Environment & Maintenance

Cllr R Tester had nothing to report.

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5.4       Civil Protection

Councillors did not have any questions or comments to raise on the Minutes.

In answer to a question from the Chairman, Cllr Street said that he anticipated that the committee would be fully set-up and organised by May or June and he hoped to arrange an emergency exercise towards the end of the year.

5.5       Traffic & Environment Working Party

Mr Morley said he would talk about and answer questions on issues other than School Hill (see below).  Since the TEWP meeting on 29 January 2004 he had, as agreed, approached ESCC on various matters.  An email had been sent to Colin Clarke about re-positioning the pavement near Nutley Post Office and Store.  Owen Williams, acting on behalf of ESCC had requested £2,000 to research the services on the west side of the A22.  According to Cllr R Tester, this information should be on file from a survey carried out at the time of alterations to the Nether Lane/A22 junction.  An email had been sent to Chris Luff about the roundels on the Forest area which are partially or totally illegible.  It is understood that the speed limit is legally enforceable but a prosecution might fail if the roundels were illegible.  Attention has also been drawn to the speed signs mounted on wooden posts as a number of these are rotten.  Mr Morley has offered to carry out a survey with members of the Parish Council or TEWP if this would assist ESCC.  An email had also been sent to Peter Hayward requesting the results of the experimental changes to the lining and cats eyes  from Lampool Corner to Fairwarp.   TEWP had also discussed that there may be merit in removing fencing to allow for livestock movement on the Forest to provide for natural traffic calming.  No replies have yet been received, but is hoped they will be available at the next meeting on 26th February.

Concerning the School Hill Experiment, Mr Morley said that the complication of bus operators' concerns was being investigated.  He and Mr Warren were slightly surprised when they met with RDH and Metrobus who hadn't received any information from the ESCC about the proposed experiment; they had learnt of it from outside sources.  No definitive answer had yet been received although it is hoped a reply will be received from both companies by the end of the week.  The company representatives had not appeared to be negative in their views about the adjustment of routes.  There may be additional costs in the region of £800 incurred for reprinting of timetables.  Cllr Sparrow confirmed that a rural transport grant may be available to assist with this.  Mr Warren has obtained an application form.  He explained that the grant would only be available after Maresfield village agreed to the scheme through a referendum.

Cllr Fry stated that it had been agreed at the last TEWP meeting to consider the alternative proposal for Maresfield traffic calming put forward by Mr Stevens.  Mr Morley and Mr Warren have arranged a meeting with Ian Johnson of ESCC on 24 February.  This is a technical issue which  requires charts and discussion with ESCC officers. 

5.6            Ashdown Business Park Working Group

The Chairman asked whether the work of this Group is getting across to WDC.  Reference had been made at a Planning Committee meeting, but nothing definitive was agreed.  It is essential for the Working Group to inform WDC that there are alternatives.  Cllr Miss Thomas proposed that it should be put on the agenda for the next Planning Committee meeting and suggested that Cllr P Tester should represent the Group.

Action: Clerk

5.7            Parklands Play Area Sub-Committee

Cllr Gutteridge reported that there had been a meeting on 22 January 2004.  He suggested the minutes should be amended in the last paragraph of item 9 on page 2 by insertion of the words "on management" after "notes".

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Cllr Sparrow said he hoped the Sub-Committee's grant application would be before the Grant Aiding Committee next week. 

6.            Outside bodies reports:-

6.1       Ford's Green Committee

Cllr R Tester reported that the fence around the play area has been erected.  Cllr PTester said the Ford's Green Committee would pay the bill and then the play area will be handed over to the Parish Council for future management.

6.2            Maresfield Conservation Group

Cllr Gutteridge reported that DCllr Buck had attended a recent meeting to answer questions on various matters including housing and planning gains; any  progress towards development of the Ashdown Business Park and the cycling facility; School Hill traffic control.  Members were pleased to have got their thoughts over to DCllr Buck.

6.3            Maresfield Recreation Ground Committee

Nothing to report since the last Council meeting.

6.4            Wealden District Association of Local Councils

Cllr Street reported on a recent meeting when the Chief Constable had dealt with travellers and changes in policing.  There are only about 60 active travellers in Sussex whom the police keep tabs on.  They are aware that local people prefer that travellers are moved on.  This is easier if there are emergency sites available, of which there are three in East Sussex.  WDC, he thought, is doing a good job providing more places on these sites than the other two district councils.  Regarding the changes in policing, the Chief Constable clarified the situation.  The new WPC allocated to Maresfield Parish is not a response officer as such; she is allocated to the locality, but has to answer 999 calls.  She will take up matters relating to Maresfield Parish.    The Chief Constable appears to be deeply committed to community policing.   

Cllr Fry questioned the Chief Constable on traffic matters, stating that he had not included road crimes such as speeding, in his priorities.  The Chief Constable said that road crimes are dealt with under Safety of Inhabitants and he believed his priorities were correct.  Cllr Fry believes that Maresfield Parish Council must take steps to persuade the police that speeding as a road crime should be a higher priority.  He will discuss this with Cllr King who shares the portfolio for police. 

Councillors have a factsheet including crime statistics as part of the minutes of the WDALC meeting.

Cllr P Tester suggested that confirmation should be sought that the WPC's area is only Maresfield Parish.                                                                                                

Action: Clerk

Cllr Sparrow said that he noted from the WDALC minutes that Kent County Council and Buckinghamshire have a good record of providing sites for travellers.  He suggested that information be obtained by ESCC and WDC so that lessons can be learnt.

6.5       Action in Rural Sussex

6.6            Wealden Local Strategic Partnership

6.7            Sussex Association of Local Councils

6.8            Community Rail Partnership

Cllr Sparrow's report on these items is appended to these minutes.

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7.            Chairman's Report

Cllr King said he would be delighted to hear from people with items for the Parish magazines.  He usually prepares the article towards the end of the first week of each month.  Cllr Sparrow said he thought the parish Council notes were well received.

8.         Clerk's Report

Cllr Sparrow drew attention to the Clerk's pleas for help and asked that Councillors give the Clerk help, or at least a nil response.

Cllr P Tester said that the report referred to there being no charges for installing BT broadband.  In his view, broadband would not be as cheap as it first appears.

Cllr Street drew attention to the WDALC offer of free website to Parish Councils, adding that any profit from advertising will be shared.  The Chairman asked for information about people able to do this, and said that one parishioner at least has a business working in this field.

Cllr Fry said that Version 5 of the meeting dates chart doesn't indicate what has changed.  The Chairman will ask the Clerk to show changes on any future versions.

Action: Cllr King and Clerk

9.            Payments to be made: for approval

Cllr P Tester expressed concern that outstanding grants already agreed to be paid were not on the list.  Cllr Sparrow said he had gone through the list with the Clerk.  Cheques had been written, but were not ready for payment so they could appear on the list next month.  Cllr P Tester said he was aware that applicants wanted the grants and proposed that if the grants appeared in the budget they should be put through and listed as "paid" at the next Council meeting.  Cllr Sparrow seconded the proposal and all agreed.  All Councillors were in favour of paying all the items on list.

10.       School Hill experiment

This matter was dealt with under item 5.5.

The meeting took a short break during which CCllr Reid, Mr Morley, Mr Warren and Ms King left.

11.       East Grinstead Relief Road – response to WSCC

Cllr Miss Thomas had prepared a comprehensive report on this matter and an amended version was distributed at the meeting which Councillors read during the short break.  She suggested a further amendment of moving paragraph 35 on page 2 down to page 4 under the paragraph starting on "page 64".

Cllr Miss Thomas had attended a public meeting at Forest Row on Tues 3 February 2004.  If the Relief Road is built, residents of Forest Row will suffer considerable congestion, as will residents further along the A22.  Cllr Miss Thomas explained that Maresfield Parish Council can only object on modifications to the West Sussex Plan.  There had been an Examination in Public and the panel's report had been sent to WSCC who appeared to have taken on some recommendations, added some and dismissed the parts they didn't want.  Cllr Miss Thomas suggested the Parish Council should write in support of the panel's recommendation for a multi-modal study of East Grinstead and East Grinstead-Gatwick access before commencement of the relief road.  She pointed out that there was a danger of problems being pushed from West Sussex into East Sussex.  Major planks for objection are strong government policies of protecting the High Weald AONB and the Ashdown Forest.  The Parish Council can also support ESCC's policy of encouraging through/long distance traffic to use the M23 and A23 box, rather than the A22.  Cllr Miss Thomas warned that comments were required by 20 February or they would be discounted.  Cllr Fry asked that she highlight the actions to be carried out in her report, rather than the arguments.  She had forwarded her draft document to High Weald AONB who had reviewed their position. 

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The Chairman suggested strengthening the arguments and his tabled amendments would be included in the letter.  Cllr Sparrow suggested circulating copies of the Parish Council letter as the Forest Row letter.  Cllr Miss Thomas agreed to make amendments to her draft submission but asked that Councillors let her have amendments early on Wednesday morning.

DCllr Brown left the meeting.

12.       Annual Assembly

The Chairman said that the date chosen for the next Annual Assembly clashes with a fundraising quiz night for Nutley and Fairwarp residents.  Various dates were discussed, but there was the risk of clashing with Bank Holidays.  It was decided to hold it on Wednesday 21 or 28 April.  The Chairman will check the availability of halls.

Action: Cllr King

13.       Village Plan Update

The Chairman thanked Cllr Sparrow for his extensive paper on this matter.  Cllr Sparrow explained that it was crucially important how the matter was taken forward.  Substantial progress had been made on a number of the areas identified by villagers, although business and tourism, originally excluded, seemed to have gained in importance.  The Parish Council was now working in a different environment where it could put forward its view of the future of the Parish including a mini structure plan to be embedded in the WDC planning structure.  Cllr Leaney said that potential changes in government structure and planning due in late summer would give Parish Councils the chance to grasp real power.  He felt that Quality Status was also very important, although Maresfield Parish Council is well placed.  He suggested an audit of the present plan should be carried out and amendments to the village plan considered.  The Chairman pointed out that there was a risk to be avoided of stopping work on immediate plans while we review/re-establish strategic aims.  Cllr P Tester felt there was some urgency regarding the youth item of the village plan with the possibility of retrieving a skateboard unit at Maresfield Camp.  It was agreed that it was unsatisfactory to consider this matter as part of a long agenda and that Cllr Sparrow should call an extra meeting of the Finance & General Purposes Committee with other Councillors attending to take the matters forward.

14.            Adoption of 2002/03 Accounts

Cllr Sparrow said the Accounts were not before the meeting because an anomaly had arisen on a previous year's accounts.   A lot of time had been spent by the accountant, internal auditor and external auditor.  It had transpired that the external auditors had an incorrect figure from WDC but Maresfield Parish Council and WDC had the correct figure and the external auditor would be informed.

15.       Return to Charity Commission for Maresfield Recreation Ground

The Chairman spoke to Councillors about the Return of a Charity known as the Public Park and Recreation Ground.  The Parish Council is the Trustee of the Charity.   He had been asked to sign returns but queried that the money shown in the accounts had not been paid to the Parish Council, but to the Maresfield Recreation Ground Committee.  Advice had been sought from SALC who said there were no problems and the form should be signed.  All Councillors agreed the Chairman had authority to sign the accounts.

16.       TEWP Parking on Pavements Leaflet – draft protocol for use

Cllr Sparrow explained the TEWP initiative to try and discourage motorists from parking on pavements.  There had been negotiations with the police and ESCC resulting in an agreed set of words and the Parish Council being permitted to use the logos of both organisations.  The leaflet has been produced; encouraged by the police and ESCC.  Other bodies including Uckfield Town Council are showing interest in using a similar leaflet.  To be effective, the

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leaflet must be used properly and the Chairman of TEWP had asked Cllr Sparrow to prepare a protocol.  Cllr Sparrow read the protocol and pointed out that it was very important that this be followed.  It was agreed to amend the protocol by the addition of the words "and is causing an obstruction" at the end of the first line of number 3; also to replace "driver's side" with "passenger's side" in the first line of number 4.  The Chairman asked whether Councillors were, in principle, in favour of the leaflet.  All Councillors agreed to go ahead with placing them on vehicles.  Cllr Sparrow had copies of the leaflets and would distribute them to Councillors on request.  It was agreed that the Clerk should not be involved with placing the leaflets on vehicles as he may need to mediate if approached by vehicle owners.

Action: Councillors

17.       Any Other Business

The Chairman thanked Sue Wilson for taking the notes.

18.       Date of next meeting – 16 March 2004

There being no further business the meeting closed at 10.40pm.